It’s allowed to go parachuting, but when you go parachuting we teach you that it is dangerous and that sometimes people die or get hurt. It’s not necessarily their fault that they got hurt, but at the end of the day the result is the same. If the risks aren’t acceptable to you then of you know of them, you can decide to not take the risks and not go parachuting.
In an ideal world, nobody would get hurt, your chute would work every time, and you would always land perfectly. But in the real world, people do get hurt and while we can and do strive to make safer and safer parachutes, getting on that plane still means that there are risks.
This doesn’t mean that the people getting hurt are to blame for going parachuting. It’s a fun activity that is usually safe, but if you don’t want to get hurt then don’t do the activity that puts you in danger.
This also doesn’t mean that if someone were to push you off the plane, that person didn’t have your blood on their hands. In the case of nudes leaking there is always a perpetrator who ought to be held accountable, it doesn’t just “happen”. But the internet is a big plane with insane people, and getting on such a plane is a risk you take, and if it were a real plane we would similarly say “do not fly on this plane unless you’re absolutely certain you have everything on lock, because it is extremely dangerous”
Agreed. Sharing nudes is risky, and something people should consider wisely.
I just don’t agree with the weird victim blaming that is going on here and the idea that if a woman shares her photos then she shouldn’t expect any privacy.
I think you’re buying too much of the self-righteous asshole’s perspective. He’s the only one dismissing it. Normal people dismiss bad stuff in this EXECT SAME way. It’s the same as the people who respond to news of a rape with, “what was she wearing?”
The comic is explicitly showing that the attitude is wrong even when applied to lesser things like nudes leaking.
Not op and I don’t think they forfeit that right at all.
What I have wrestled with is: where is the line between taking precautions against known threats and victim blaming?
Maybe the line is temporal.
After someone is victimized, we can acknowledge that and maybe keep our mouths shut with victim blaming nonsense like, “you should have done XYZ”. Because that doesn’t help, further hurts the victim, and saying it makes you an asshole.
Prior to being victimized isn’t it up to each of us to evaluate and manage personal risks given all the threats we face every day? I think so and I think each of us is responsible for learning about and managing risk and deciding what precautions to take.
That isn’t to say we must take every precaution no matter how impractical or outrageous (like not walking on the sidewalk or never taking nude selfies).
It is never acceptable to tell someone else what their risk tolerance is or to dictate to them what precautions to take.
Doing that is being an asshole.
And I now believe that is where the line is drawn.
It is shitty to tell others how to live their life. It is good, however, to be willing to help people be aware of and understand the risks they face and offer advice if asked, on mitigating those risks. Provided your goal is to help and you don’t act like a sanctimonious ass.
Whatever we do, we may still be victimized and the blame always rests squarely on the shoulders of the perpetrator. They took the action that victimized us.
If you couldn’t tell I do cybersecurity as a living. My job isn’t to manage risk, it’s to help others achieve their objectives while understanding and managing risks they face.
It’s obnoxious for people to tell people what risks to take. And demonstrates a complete lack of compassion to lecture people when these risks don’t pan out.
That’s the issue here, which people seem to be missing.
I enjoy sending my social security number to people I know. Should I expect anything other than identity fraud? There are consequences to your actions and there’s no reason to send nudes to someone that could leak them.
Yes I do but it would be their fault if my info got leaked. Similarly, if I sent a nude to my spouse, it would be their fault if it got leaked. I’m both cases, extreme care is to be taken and sensitive things should only be sent to trustworthy parties.
It does compare how people will have a sliding scale where they don’t hold the right people for the action that belongs to them and switch it out where it’s convenient. It becomes an all roads lead to blaming women. You just did it yourself. Meanwhile here i am in the world where nudes could exist and me not hacking them. I think I figured out how control over personal actions work. I think you can figure it out also.
I didn’t bring gender into this, you did. This issue applies to anyone. Once you take a nude picture and send it to someone, you no longer have control over it. There’s a non-zero chance someone you didn’t want to see it, will see it. Is hacking to steal someones nudes wrong? Yes. Does it still happen? Yes. I think people should be aware of this before doing something they can’t take back.
Person 1 takes some nudes and sends them to committed long term partner, long term partner’s cyber security is lax and Person C gets access to P1’s nudes and uploads them.
Person 2 has never taken nude photos, but unknown to them used a fitting room that Person D had hidden a spy camera in. Person D uploads these photos to the Internet.
I’m not sure I’d count it as pedantry when everything was specifically talking about taking nude selfies and the other person started talking about something different.
I was interested in seeing if they felt differently about photos taken ones self in a ratively secure and trusted setting and then the photo was taken without permission versus an actual taken without permission.
OK so because it’s selfies, so person 1 is responsible for her images leaking in a way person 2 is not?
Or do you feel that selfies are a level above and beyond just nude photos by virtue of having been self taken? If so, what sets nude selfies apart from sexy photos taken by a long term partner if anything?
I think the responsible one is the one leaking them. But the only real way to prevent them leaking is not to take them.
Or do you feel that selfies are a level above and beyond just nude photos by virtue of having been self taken? If so, what sets nude selfies apart from sexy photos taken by a long term partner if anything?
I guess the difference is what you can do to lower the risk. You can decide not to take nude selfies or allow someone else to (with consent) photo yourself naked. Someone taking photos of you without you knowing, much less you can do about it.
With specifically nude selfies (not just any nude photo) you can stop them from leaking by not taking them. A nude photo, I guess the only way would be to go nevernude with clothes you can’t see through in any way or something. One is a bit more feasible.
But I also don’t think it’s a big delta in risk chance in a lot of cases, meanwhile in some parts of the world (looking at you East Asia) spy cameras are a huge problem.
There are, I imagine millions of nude photos taken that never leak.
I think a reason many feminists feel strongly on the issue is that it really throws society’s whore-virgin paradigm into relief, where women with sexuality are pushed to take the blame for their actions without much (any) consideration for them as people. Which is the reason “just don’t take them” gets the hostile reaction it does, and is a ridiculed response.
It feels like a kneejerk reaction to just a truthful statement. You can’t control what others do with your photos if you send them and with how device and account security is, you are taking a known risk by taking them. I’m sure some assign blame in the same breath but I don’t think in itself it assigns any blame.
It may be, but even knowing all that it is hardly helpful advice, and at least out of context and not knowing the people talking doesn’t seem to contain empathy or sympathy.
And is devoid of criticism of the actual leaker of the photos.
There’s also a lot of context being ignored. Nude selfies are usually taken with a smartphone by someone who has numerous connected accounts and apps that can potentially have access to those pictures. And that’s assuming they stay on your phone and not in the cloud by default. And that no one else is physically interacting with your phone.
In the dystopian hellscape of modern technology, everything is connected, your data is not your own, and privacy is obsolete. Fighting that trend and keeping your data secure is a constant battle that the typical user gave up on long ago.
Imagine if people were taking pictures of their passwords, credit card numbers, social security cards (or equivalent sensitive data for those in other countries) and various forms of identification. What would you need to do to feel those pictures were safe from unwanted attention? And would it really be surprising if someone pointed out that this is an unnecessary risk?
That’s a bad comparison. No one has to take nude selfies. Walking down the street is something everyone will do at some point.
So if someone enjoys something that isn’t strictly required to live, they forfeit any implicit right to safety and privacy?
No, but they should understand the risks.
It’s allowed to go parachuting, but when you go parachuting we teach you that it is dangerous and that sometimes people die or get hurt. It’s not necessarily their fault that they got hurt, but at the end of the day the result is the same. If the risks aren’t acceptable to you then of you know of them, you can decide to not take the risks and not go parachuting.
In an ideal world, nobody would get hurt, your chute would work every time, and you would always land perfectly. But in the real world, people do get hurt and while we can and do strive to make safer and safer parachutes, getting on that plane still means that there are risks.
This doesn’t mean that the people getting hurt are to blame for going parachuting. It’s a fun activity that is usually safe, but if you don’t want to get hurt then don’t do the activity that puts you in danger.
This also doesn’t mean that if someone were to push you off the plane, that person didn’t have your blood on their hands. In the case of nudes leaking there is always a perpetrator who ought to be held accountable, it doesn’t just “happen”. But the internet is a big plane with insane people, and getting on such a plane is a risk you take, and if it were a real plane we would similarly say “do not fly on this plane unless you’re absolutely certain you have everything on lock, because it is extremely dangerous”
Agreed. Sharing nudes is risky, and something people should consider wisely.
I just don’t agree with the weird victim blaming that is going on here and the idea that if a woman shares her photos then she shouldn’t expect any privacy.
It’s definitely the same for people who aren’t women. But the author decided to go with what they did.
I think you’re buying too much of the self-righteous asshole’s perspective. He’s the only one dismissing it. Normal people dismiss bad stuff in this EXECT SAME way. It’s the same as the people who respond to news of a rape with, “what was she wearing?”
The comic is explicitly showing that the attitude is wrong even when applied to lesser things like nudes leaking.
Not op and I don’t think they forfeit that right at all.
What I have wrestled with is: where is the line between taking precautions against known threats and victim blaming?
Maybe the line is temporal.
After someone is victimized, we can acknowledge that and maybe keep our mouths shut with victim blaming nonsense like, “you should have done XYZ”. Because that doesn’t help, further hurts the victim, and saying it makes you an asshole.
Prior to being victimized isn’t it up to each of us to evaluate and manage personal risks given all the threats we face every day? I think so and I think each of us is responsible for learning about and managing risk and deciding what precautions to take.
That isn’t to say we must take every precaution no matter how impractical or outrageous (like not walking on the sidewalk or never taking nude selfies).
It is never acceptable to tell someone else what their risk tolerance is or to dictate to them what precautions to take.
Doing that is being an asshole.
And I now believe that is where the line is drawn.
It is shitty to tell others how to live their life. It is good, however, to be willing to help people be aware of and understand the risks they face and offer advice if asked, on mitigating those risks. Provided your goal is to help and you don’t act like a sanctimonious ass.
Whatever we do, we may still be victimized and the blame always rests squarely on the shoulders of the perpetrator. They took the action that victimized us.
If you couldn’t tell I do cybersecurity as a living. My job isn’t to manage risk, it’s to help others achieve their objectives while understanding and managing risks they face.
Well said. It’s all risk management.
It’s obnoxious for people to tell people what risks to take. And demonstrates a complete lack of compassion to lecture people when these risks don’t pan out.
That’s the issue here, which people seem to be missing.
People should know how computers work before they take pictures of their naughty bits with it.
Actually people should have a basic understanding of anything they’ve built a significant portion of their lives in or on.
But here we are, apparently.
Interesting interpretation of their comment
False dilemma says what?
I enjoy sending my social security number to people I know. Should I expect anything other than identity fraud? There are consequences to your actions and there’s no reason to send nudes to someone that could leak them.
And yet you send your security number to banks and your job. Curious.
Yes I do but it would be their fault if my info got leaked. Similarly, if I sent a nude to my spouse, it would be their fault if it got leaked. I’m both cases, extreme care is to be taken and sensitive things should only be sent to trustworthy parties.
In some countries it’s against the law for women to leave the house without their husband’s permission.
So there are likely men who actually would believe that a woman doesn’t NEED to walk down the street any more than take a nude selfie.
It does compare how people will have a sliding scale where they don’t hold the right people for the action that belongs to them and switch it out where it’s convenient. It becomes an all roads lead to blaming women. You just did it yourself. Meanwhile here i am in the world where nudes could exist and me not hacking them. I think I figured out how control over personal actions work. I think you can figure it out also.
Men take nude selfies a lot too.
And at times a bit too willing to distribute it…without consent of the receiver.
I didn’t bring gender into this, you did. This issue applies to anyone. Once you take a nude picture and send it to someone, you no longer have control over it. There’s a non-zero chance someone you didn’t want to see it, will see it. Is hacking to steal someones nudes wrong? Yes. Does it still happen? Yes. I think people should be aware of this before doing something they can’t take back.
The topic is an entitled white male mansplaining to women. Bit late to play ‘this isn’t gender’ now.
Person 1 takes some nudes and sends them to committed long term partner, long term partner’s cyber security is lax and Person C gets access to P1’s nudes and uploads them.
Person 2 has never taken nude photos, but unknown to them used a fitting room that Person D had hidden a spy camera in. Person D uploads these photos to the Internet.
How different do you think these two cases are?
Very?
OK, explain.
And if we’re talking about personal responsibility, to what extent you think it differs.
Specifically taking nudes (and sending them) seems a different sort of risk to just having been in front of a camera that was hacked.
I don’t think i Person 2’s case they would be considered “selfies”
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I’m not sure I’d count it as pedantry when everything was specifically talking about taking nude selfies and the other person started talking about something different.
I was interested in seeing if they felt differently about photos taken ones self in a ratively secure and trusted setting and then the photo was taken without permission versus an actual taken without permission.
OK so because it’s selfies, so person 1 is responsible for her images leaking in a way person 2 is not?
Or do you feel that selfies are a level above and beyond just nude photos by virtue of having been self taken? If so, what sets nude selfies apart from sexy photos taken by a long term partner if anything?
I think the responsible one is the one leaking them. But the only real way to prevent them leaking is not to take them.
I guess the difference is what you can do to lower the risk. You can decide not to take nude selfies or allow someone else to (with consent) photo yourself naked. Someone taking photos of you without you knowing, much less you can do about it.
With specifically nude selfies (not just any nude photo) you can stop them from leaking by not taking them. A nude photo, I guess the only way would be to go nevernude with clothes you can’t see through in any way or something. One is a bit more feasible.
You’re not wrong.
But I also don’t think it’s a big delta in risk chance in a lot of cases, meanwhile in some parts of the world (looking at you East Asia) spy cameras are a huge problem.
There are, I imagine millions of nude photos taken that never leak.
I think a reason many feminists feel strongly on the issue is that it really throws society’s whore-virgin paradigm into relief, where women with sexuality are pushed to take the blame for their actions without much (any) consideration for them as people. Which is the reason “just don’t take them” gets the hostile reaction it does, and is a ridiculed response.
It feels like a kneejerk reaction to just a truthful statement. You can’t control what others do with your photos if you send them and with how device and account security is, you are taking a known risk by taking them. I’m sure some assign blame in the same breath but I don’t think in itself it assigns any blame.
It may be, but even knowing all that it is hardly helpful advice, and at least out of context and not knowing the people talking doesn’t seem to contain empathy or sympathy.
And is devoid of criticism of the actual leaker of the photos.
I think it’s just trying to point out the risk so people at least make an informed decision on what to do.
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There’s also a lot of context being ignored. Nude selfies are usually taken with a smartphone by someone who has numerous connected accounts and apps that can potentially have access to those pictures. And that’s assuming they stay on your phone and not in the cloud by default. And that no one else is physically interacting with your phone.
In the dystopian hellscape of modern technology, everything is connected, your data is not your own, and privacy is obsolete. Fighting that trend and keeping your data secure is a constant battle that the typical user gave up on long ago.
Imagine if people were taking pictures of their passwords, credit card numbers, social security cards (or equivalent sensitive data for those in other countries) and various forms of identification. What would you need to do to feel those pictures were safe from unwanted attention? And would it really be surprising if someone pointed out that this is an unnecessary risk?
How’s that cocoon going?
That whistle makes my dog flinch.
I knew it felt off, I just couldn’t figure out why