- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
Experts alerted motor trade to security risks of ‘smart key’ systems which have now fuelled highest level of car thefts for a decade.
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It’s so difficult to use a regular key though.
I’ve had to cancel journeys before because I get in the car and I just cannot work out how to turn it on 😞
I finally did but…gawd turning a key is so much work!
We need a turnkey solution for this, stat!
Convenience is usually at odds with security.
That said, keyless access is amazing. Not having to dig out the car key is just so comfortable.
My favorite keyless car:
I wish one of them went from my home to my place of employment or my places of entertainment, much less at a time that’s reasonable
They struck gold in the most horrible way possible: People dependent on their cars + their car keeps getting stolen = infinite money printing machine
I hear americans love big cars. Here is big car for them to buy:
fuckcars folks trying not to be the most annoying person in the room for one second challenge (instant fail)
Look, I love good public transportation infrastructure as much as you. I always try to tell other people and especially the government how much my city urgently needs to upgrade its trains, BRTs, sidewalks, etc (thankfully though there’s now multiple efforts on building MRT & LRT).
But, that doesn’t mean cars are the worst invention in the history of man–you folks always say that and it’s infuriating to me, it’s such a narrow-minded way of seeing the world.
Take Japan for example, the train infrastructure is pretty much the best. I know that cuz I’ve been there, trust me, I can talk about this for hours. So good that, while we lived there, we didn’t feel the need to buy a car. Their bus is pretty good too. Sidewalks, bike lanes, accessibility, etc have been taken into account when they were building their city.
But when you live in rural parts of Japan, it’s inevitable–you need cars. There isn’t just enough demand for public transportation. Sometimes there’s a train going through but the frequency is low, and most of the time it’s only single-track. Or sometimes there are buses going through, but infrequently.
And it’s fine. The city is small, and there aren’t enough car users to make bad traffic congestion.
Different story for big city though. I always thought that living in a big city is a form of compromise: you have a limited space of land to use, but you need to use that land for millions of people. If the city only relies on cars, it’s going to be so inefficient. Too much traffic congestion, bad pollution. That’s why good cities build mass transportation, or in your case, buses.
And the best cities build extremely good mass transportation so good that people doesn’t feel the need of buying cars. Of course cars still exist, like the city I lived back in when I was in Japan. Or rural parts of Japan. Or perhaps people that commute between them. But there are options: cars, bikes, buses, trains, etc.
Here’s my point: the availability of options are the best. It’s okay if you want to ride cars, bike, bus, or trains.
Cause you’ll need cars at some point in your life. And it’s alright.
Dude youre being a condescending ass, plenty of us wish we had the ability to use public transit but it is either wholly insufficient or non existant in many places.
Just using myself as an example, say I want to go to taco bell I have 2 options drive for 15 minutes at most or walk for over 2 hours because my city is built on a fucking slope. Also the city has no infra city public transit cause we’re too small, also most of the city is actually pretty walkable if you live towards the center of the East West axis which I do not.
I find it hard to believe cities are too small for public transit and too big to walk at the same time. I find it easier to believe people are just too lazy for a 30 min walk.
It wouldnt be too big for wlakability if it wasnt on aa fucking slope, 30 minute walk downhill will translate into an hour minimum walk up hill.
Have ya tried a bike/ebike? Till I was 26 all I ever used was a bike. Can easily do 20km/hr and bypass traffic. Used to work 12 hr shifts and bike to and from work (12km) and where I am there are hills in both directions
Shit I got an e bike now that does 50kph/32mph and I can get to work (8km) in less than 15 min
I used to bike all around town in highschool and middleschool, but the problem is that they only shave off so much time relatively speaking. Also once again I must note I live in the worst part of town for walking or biking anywhere, bout 30 minutes to walk anywhere bout an hour and a half minimum to walk back home.
Looks like ya hit a sore spot with some millimeter peters
Wut?
Small dick people downvoting
Ah
No shit.
I mean not to side with the car industry, and not to dog on non-tech folks, but if you bought a push to start engine that doesn’t require a key…
…
Like how do you think it works?! You couldn’t have thought it was very different from your TV remote, and everyone knows universal remotes exist. In glad there’s so much talk about moving away from passwords and over to physical security keys for computers.
Like how do you think it works?!
Rolling codes…
This article is stupid, the reason Kias and Hyundai are being stolen, is they lack an immobilizer.
So you break the window, crack open the steering column, and the part you turn conveniently is the same size as a USB plugin.
It’s acting like people are hijacking codes, because the author has no idea what they’re talking about about.
I’m not sure about what the article is referencing, which is probably a little more exotic, but relay attacks are very common against keyless cars. Keyless cars are constantly pinging for their matching fob. A relay attack just involves a repeater antenna held outside the car that repeats the signal between the car and the fob inside the house. Since many people leave the fob near the front of the house, it works and allows thieves to enter and start the car. Canada has has a big problem with car thieves using relay attacks to then drive cars into shipping containers and then sell them overseas.
Maybe you should read the article?
If you did, you’d probably be able to see the author has no idea what’s going on.
Like, the international crime ring that you’re talking about that gets cars halfway around the globe in a few weeks?
That happens, but it’s not why so many Kias and Hyundai are being stolen thousands of miles from a coast
Well that’s why i don’t like keyless vehicles, it’s easy to stole it with some wireless signal emulator
In the end the principle is same like wireless garage door opener, some thieves can hijack it very easily like no effortDo you not know what rolling codes are?
Isn’t that what the Flipper Zero is for ;-) Kia notwithstanding it’s not that easy. But the relay attacks have been around since at least 2018 and I suspect years longer.
For garage doors… Yeah, it’s been a thing
Because you can sit something there, monitor the rolling codes, then inject so it has a real one.
For a car, you have to follow them around while they lock/unlock repeatedly. And that’s only if people are using the button and not proximity. If they’re just using proximity, you’re going to have to be standing right next to them.
I have a question. What do you think a rolling code style security system does if the thief is amplifying your key fobs signal by standing in your driveway at 3 am and then transmitting it to your door lock? Because we’re talking about keyless entry where you don’t have to push any buttons on the key fob it just has to be within three feet of the vehicle. They are literally using your key to unlock your door. The key is always transmitting. The vehicle is always receiving. At the point where they have access to the interior of the vehicle they can just pull the fuses for the horn and lights and then pop the transmission shifter cable off the transmission control lever and manually put the car in neutral. This attack takes maybe ten minutes. At that point they can literally just roll the car onto a flatbed and drive away. The flipper zero costs $169 USD. But you can make one from parts for much less. A GPS blocking tool costs around $15. A signal repeater isn’t expensive either. Keyless entry on the whole is broken.
You may stop joyriders and petty thieves. But you won’t stop anyone looking to steal a car who has the know how and who is looking to sell your car for parts. The fact is, a lot of premium cars are vulnerable to attacks like this.
And before you even start about what I know about it, literally I’m an avionics tech. Rolling codes and frequency hopping is how we keep unfriendly forces from listening in on comms. Electronic attack and defence is literally what I did in the Navy for twelve years.
Rolling codes are a good security feature. But they do nothing to stop the attack that other articles on this subject better explain.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cars-hacked-stolen-keyless-vehicle-thefts/
Did you read OPs article or the ones you linked?
I went to the ARS one and it’s talking about CAN hacking which requires a physical connection…
It’s a great article, but if it has anything to do with this conversation and if anything backs me up. It’s about all the work thieves are going thru because rolling keys beats emulators.
C’mon man, even if you know what you’re talking about about (doesn’t seem to be the case) you still gotta read your own articles.
Aren’t all cars within the past decades using rolling keys?
This article does not do a good job of explaining what the attack vectors are.
It’s near impossible to clone the signal from newer rolling codes, you need to trigger the key fob with out the signal reaching the car and then recorded with the flipper zero, then played back to the car. It takes a lot of coordination using the key fob. Here are some videos of it.
Those videos aren’t for cars with keyless entry. Those cars have a bladed key for placing in an ignition lock cylinder to start the vehicle (or in the case of the mini, which is a car I actually own, into the little slot for the round key fob).The flipper zero recording a code isn’t what I am talking about when I talk about repeater attacks. What I’m talking about is using a receiver to receive and amplify the code so that they can use keyless entry (where you simply touch the vehicles door handle with your hand with the key within three feet of the car) and only requires you to have the key on you. Did you read the other comment I linked? This isn’t about having a key with buttons that are required to be pressed to enter the car. This is literally about passive keyless entry. Please go read the articles I linked.
I mentioned nothing about signal cloning and you clearly didn’t read.
https://www.techtarget.com/whatis/definition/passive-keyless-entry-PKE
Oh my bad, I was inferring that from the original article. Those articles you posted are good and talk about the CAN attack, but the original article talks about the rolling codes using a flipper zero like device.
My bad, I didn’t intend to come off badly, I just literally had a similar conversation when someone who didn’t read what I wrote, completely ignored whole sections of the article, and I may have come off a bit terse as a result. But you are correct about the flipper zero specifically.
