you’re correct that the term normally used is “drop out”. i think this article may be using “stop out” to specifically refer to people who merely did not enroll in a new semester (vs. people who e.g. failed out, or were otherwise forcibly removed from the school), but i wasn’t able to conclude this 100% from my reading
huh, interesting. i mean that’s awful for you and i’m sorry you have to deal with that, but it is interesting there’s a place where that’s the case
i can understand the second part of your statement, but the first part confuses me. are you saying that you’ll be harassed more in public for being gender conforming vs e.g. wearing a dress? or do you mean something else?
the misandry has become less acceptable over time, probably as more “cis” girls like i was realized we weren’t so cis or girls and made some of those actually cis girls confront the things they’d said and thought during that time
but also we’ve become a lot more aware of how the patriarchy hurts men, and we’ve also become more broadly aware of feminist authors like bell hooks, who have been writing about how men need feminism too all along
i had to google this because i am not a tiktok-er, and apparently women (? sample size?) are commonly stating that they would rather encounter a bear than a man if they were alone in the woods
interesting point that men often also chose the bear for the question of if they would rather have their wife / daughter stuck in the woods with a bear or a man, so that says a lot about men, as well, i think
we can derive some other mildly interesting points from this, like viewing sexual violence as potentially worse than non-sexual but fatal violence. or like, that one might have to live with societal judgement of having been sexually assaulted because there’s still a lot of assumptions that you initiated it somehow (rape culture) vs people universally having sympathy for the victim of an animal attack
overall, the unfortunate reality is that women generally view men or people who look like men as dangerous. i’m a transgender man and i’ve observed this phenomenon in a very real way as women have gone from generally friendly or neutral to detached. it sucks, but it’s not personal
however, if this really bothers you, there are actually some things you can do to help women feel more comfortable around you. this is not like… a guarantee. at the end of the day, you’re gonna have to live with jumpscaring some women if you round a corner too quick at them. that’s how life is. but, if you want to give them some signs you are not a violent person, not as a way to trick them into trusting you, but as a genuine attempt to help them feel safe:
if you change your style to be more feminine, even in subtle ways, like wearing a pink shirt or pink shoes. if you have a man purse. you don’t really need to go full femme but if you express yourself in a way that makes you look like someone secure in your masculinity (actual), it will help women understand you’re not really a threat
which i think, generally, reflects that women understand that patriarchy isn’t about men as a whole, but rather that most men haven’t confronted the ideas they were raised with in order to “be a man”, and those are the dangerous ideas they need to avoid to be safe
i think there is also an idea that expressing yourself as a softer or more feminine man will make it harder for you to get laid, and i think this may be true. however, i would suggest that women who only wanna fuck you because you’re traditionally masculine are not really the women you wanna be fucking, because they’re (probably) going to bring their own ideas of toxic masculinity to enforce on you. those are the women who are more concerned with whether or not e.g. you can change the oil on their car, that you are a “real man”, and hopefully it goes without saying that those are the ideas you want to avoid reinforcing / internalizing, even if that means turning down a sexual partner
bell hooks, rest in peace. truly an incredible author, i originally learned of her from the news she had passed away :(
just wanted to post to let people know that she styled her name literally “bell hooks”, as all lowercase
this was a really funny article to me because the author really doesn’t seem that attached to being a man. i want to be clear, that’s fine and valid. but it seems weird to then speak to the want of men in general to have more positive role models of masculinity, and say, well you should just want positive role models
like? yeah, you can have role models of any gender, but isn’t it nice to have role models who look like you? isn’t that the entire point that people make when saying representation is important? that doesn’t stop being true just because we’re talking about men now
he’s missing such a basic and fundamental argument that the entire thing just becomes, at least for me, an externalized argument about how he feels about his own gender, which appears to be disconnected and largely not good
also he picked like, apparently the worst examples of masculinity he could find and said, yeah this is why we don’t need positive masculinity?? like c’mon
i like being a man, it’s cool. there’s a lot (A LOT) of shit i have to reconcile with being a man. but imo that’s part of the duty that comes with it. so yeah, author, it would be pretty cool to see men who had done that, who expressed their masculinity in unique and authentic ways that sometimes conform and sometimes don’t
you know. like people
(i want to take a moment to say that i have several women role models and also people whose gender identities aren’t so easily captured by the binary. but those people, generally speaking, don’t need to reconcile with the long history of people of their gender doing harm to those around them, nor with the present day scars from that harm. it’s a LOT to come to grips with understanding that you scare a lot of people just by existing, and frankly, that’s just an experience that a man is more commonly going to have to experience. exclusively? of course not. obviously, there’s a racial bias here as well. but due to the commonality, having readily available examples of how to handle it well, and even gracefully, would be nice)
@MareOfNights@discuss.tchncs.de hoping you’ll see this as well
kind of feel weird about you both using trans men as demonstrating your argument without either of you actually being trans. there are as many kinds of trans men as there are cis, and you can find examples of those of us who enjoy conforming to stereotypical masculinity and those of us who don’t
it’s also fairly presumptuous to assume every trans person’s goal is to pass, and also to presume the intent behind the goal of passing
honestly even presuming that trans men are asking how to be men, instead of defining it for themselves, is very presumptuous
like, the points you’re making, in general, aren’t bad. but it kind of feels icky to presume a minority’s goal and to also use it as an argument, when that minority’s reasoning is wide and varied. i think most people don’t like being treated like a monolith and i think that applies here, too
trans men were also largely unnecessary for the arguments you were making. a lot of it could be said for people who want to or enjoy (or don’t!) presenting masculine, regardless of sex assigned at birth. the answer to the author’s question, why should we have positive examples of masculinity, really boils down to, because some people like being masculine, but not toxic. trans men aren’t really special in that regard
anyways, keep in mind that i don’t speak for all trans men, but this trans man felt weird about this, like i’m being referenced as a demographic with no regard for what being in the demographic is like. thanks for reading
i am also wondering this, this thread feels like the goddamn twilight zone
if you want to talk about women’s issues, why don’t you go to communities dedicated to that? we’re not taking away from them; we’re also feminist. we’re allied, and it’s important to have a space for men to talk about, from a feminist perspective, how the patriarchy impacts them
i don’t understand why you think space on lemmy is somehow limited?
nor do i see how your second paragraph is relevant at all
it seems like you view this community as a stereotypical MRA/MGTOW kind of place, which it definitely isn’t. and getting rid of it would leave it so men looking to talk about their issues only have those shitty places to go. that would only lead more men down the alt right rabbit hole
there’s enough space on the internet for everyone
you can take the link to the internet archive yourself, but it’s still getting cut off halfway through for “verifying access”. i had this happen with a different article recently too (different site as well, but still blocking access through the internet archive). i wonder if companies are shutting down access to their stuff through the internet archive :/
completely understandable, it sounds like it totally came out of the blue. i’ve gotten caught off guard a lot by shit like this too and been unsure of how to react, definitely don’t feel bad about it
if you manage to get your bearings, if something like that happens again, a good way to approach this sort of situation is to ask the person to explain the joke. so, for example:
“well, that’s definitely putting a rack on a shelf”
“haha… yeah uh, what do you mean by that?”
they try to explain it without sounding sexist but sound sexist and feel silly afterwards
honestly though, i would have asked them to explain it anyways. you clearly sensed the intent behind it, so i totally get that it was sexist. but like, wtf does that even mean?? putting a rack on a shelf? huh??? i would have filled in the details more but i genuinely don’t get it 💀💀💀
anyways, i’m sorry you had to hear that kind of shit from a client. it’s tough because i’m sure that’s a situation where you have to be really cognizant of the relationship. fwiw, you don’t need to chase them down or be really mean about the whole thing; usually getting them to realize by themselves that they’re being sexist is enough. you can just be pretty apologetic about not understanding their “joke”
Zeno Franco, who studies heroism and post-traumatic stress disorder at the Medical College of Wisconsin, thinks that we can turn masculine norms against sexual harassment and assault. “When has it ever been an acceptable norm that men instill fear in women? When has it ever been an acceptable norm that men turn a blind eye when other men harm women?”
absolutely. i always feel leery about making blanket statements about “what it means to be a man”; but without question, for me, it means protecting those who cannot protect themselves, pushing back and speaking out against those who exercise their power on others without regard for their well being. it means interfering in situations where i think someone will be harmed if i don’t, and trusting myself to be able to improve the situation, not just make it worse
sometimes, that means risking my own well being, too. i’m smart about it, not reckless; my own well being matters a lot to me too, especially because there are some people who are just fucked if something happens to me. but there are plenty of times i take that risk too and trust that, if things go wrong, they’ll be alright and they’ll understand
sometimes, there are things i see and need to act on because i couldn’t rightfully call myself a man if i didn’t
i’m trans, though. i don’t really understand the position of (often) cis men who don’t feel like this. maybe they’ve been told their own power is contingent on the system functioning as intended. maybe they’re just afraid, i get that
part of my ability to do this is that i’ve already been through hell. i know that if i mess up and do something to jeopardize my life, i can figure it out and fix it. i’ll survive. and it will have been worth it. maybe they don’t know that, they don’t have that kind of confidence in themselves
i’m also decent in a fight and i’ve spent some time learning communication and de-escalation skills (shoutout nonviolent communication) and i’ve spent over a decade in therapy
but i’ve always thought we should be speaking to men this way - are you really strong if you can’t protect those weaker than you? not to shame them about being weak; sometimes you are and that’s the reality of things. but is it truly strong to hoard power for yourself? how confident can you say you really are, if you’re afraid to use some of it for the benefit of others?
i haven’t lived an easy life, but it’s worth shouldering the burden to help make other people’s lives easier, too. it is what needs to be done, if we want to see a better society than the one we’ve grown up in
(i generalized a lot of this because the abuse of power, while influenced by gender, is not defined by gender)
holy shit these are great recs, tysm
as someone who has similar group chats, this is a really cute read
didn’t know how much i needed to hear “don’t treat them as wretched because they’re men, treat them as wretched because they’re wretched”
this is great and probably speaks really well to people who have experienced typical cis male socialization and i love that for them and hope they can explore their submissive side more
now if only there was a similar article for trans guys coming around on their dominant side… i would really appreciate that lmao
(to elaborate more: it is hard to feel good about being into domming people as a guy raised with a strong understanding of the patriarchy and how the abuse of power hurts people. it’s a core belief of mine to treat people as equals, peers, individuals capable of governing their own sovereignty
so naturally, i’m also into domming people. not exclusively. but it’s definitely something i struggle to feel comfortable with)
yo, me too. it’s never too late to invest in your body though! you know… in a healthy way :)
the survival story was beautiful. marco should be extremely proud of reraising himself and achieving a happy life
it was also shocking to see that this is maybe the link between homosexuality and pedophilia that the right are so often trying to warn people about. it’s… truly horrific, what kentler did to these kids. and kind of infuriating that his actions would be linked to homosexuality as a whole
it’s not like i don’t have any empathy for him, he was a product of… deeply fucked up people, people who also judged and shunned homosexuality. but what he did is just absolutely fucking vile