If you’re at the pole, just walk due south.

As shepherds we shall be…

While Intend to agree that the time needs to accommodate school schedules, it is ludicrous to base school schedules on the latest sunrise of the year, especially since that sunrise is only that late for a few weeks of the year, and for >2 of those weeks, the kids are on winter break anyway.

Schools can adjust their schedules on much smaller increments.

if new York stayed on -5 in winter

New York is on UTC-5 in winter.

8am is the latest sunrise in a Detroit winter on EST, UTC-5. If you want it earlier, Detroit can’t be on EST, let alone EDT. They would need to be on CST, UTC-6, which the never are. Solar noon would be around 11:15 AM. Sunset would be before 4PM.

Are you just being contrary for the sake of being contrary?

Timezones are already a step toward an arbitrary standard time for the purposes of making communication easier and not needing to change your watch just because you moved around. UTC everywhere would just be another larger step in that already established direction.

The next step is to stop talking about “Daylight Savings Time” and “Standard Time” and phrase these as UTC offsets.

The Eastern timezone uses UTC-5 over the winter. We use UTC-4 over the summer. In summer, if they used UTC-5, the sunrise in New York would be around 4AM. Which is way too early. New York should not be on UTC-5 in the summer. But there is no real problem with New York using UTC-4 year round.

Detroit, on the other hand, would have sunrise after 9AM in winter if they used UTC-4. Which is absurd; they cannot use UTC-4 year round. But, there is no real problem with them using UTC-5 year round.

The solution, then, is not to select permanent DST or Standard Time for the entire timezone. The solution is for the states (or localities) to each select which UTC offset makes sense for them, and the next time they are on that offset, they do not switch again.

Let’s stop using the terms “DST” and “standard time”. They really confuse the issue. The contiguous US uses UTC-4 (EDT) , UTC-5 (EST/CDT) UTC-6 (CST/MDT), UTC-7 (MST/PDT) and UTC-8 (PST) time zones. We aren’t all going to be using the same UTC offset for permanent time. We are all going to be adopting the UTC offset that makes sense for our region.

New England and Michigan are currently in the same time zone, which switches between UTC-4 and UTC-5. Year-round UTC-5 puts dawn before 4am in New York City during the summer. New England should absolutely not be on UTC-5 in the summer. They should be on UTC-4. On permanent UTC-4, New York dawns will always be between 5 and 8 AM.

Year-round UTC-4 puts dawn at 9am in Detroit during the winter. Detroit should absolutely not be in UTC-4 in the winter. On permanent UTC-5, Detroit dawns will always be between 5 and 8 AM.

New York should be on permanent UTC-4. Detroit should be on permanent UTC-5.

Its easier to illuminate a bedroom in the morning than the great outdoors in a ridiculously early evening.

It is amazing how many problems would be resolved with liberal use of (figurative) guillotines.

Drop “daylight savings time” and “standard time” monikers. Use UTC offsets, and tell us what state you are in.

New York and Michigan are currently in the same time zone. When we go to permanent time, they should not be.

Michigan in UTC-4 (EDT) winter would have a sunrise after 9AM. That’s fucking absurd; they should not be on UTC-4 during winter. They should be permanently on UTC-5.

New York in UTC-5 (EST) would have a summer sunrise before 4AM. That’s fucking absurd. They should not be on UTC-5 in the summer. They should be permanently on UTC-4.

Maine’s earliest sunset on UTC-5 will be at 3:45PM. That is criminally insane. They should permanently be on UTC-4, or maybe even UTC-3.

Daylight smart bulbs, fading on in the bedroom at summertime schedules, year round. Game changer.

Why does my boss get virtually all of my daylight for half a year? Why don’t I get some daylight for my own use between work time and bedtime?

mid-day is once again at 12:00,

It is 12:00 only in the middle of the time zone. Mid-day is now approximately 11:30AM on the eastern end of the timezone.

Exactly. New York would probably elect to stay permanently on UTC-4 (EDT/Atlantic Standard Time), and never switch to UTC-5 (EST) like they are now. Michigan would probably choose UTC-5 permanently, and never switch to UTC-4, like they currently do in the summer.

Both states are in the same time zone. They probably shouldn’t be when we go to permanent time.

Timezones are an international standard.

UTC offsets are an international standard. The specific UTC offset to adopt in any particular geographic area is by no means an international standard. That decision is made at a relatively low level of government.

Or we could just stop trying to fuck with it and leave it on standard time.

Clearly, you and I don’t want to be in the same time zone. Let’s dump the “Standard Time” and “DST” names. They are really just confusing the issue.

Eastern Standard Time is currently UTC-5. What state are you in, and what UTC offset do you want to permanently use?

I am in easterm Ohio, and I want to be permanently on UTC-4.

I think Maine and much of New England would choose to be on permanent UTC-3, so sunset is never before 4PM.

I think Michigan would probably choose permanent UTC-5, so sunrise is never after 8AM.

Sunset in Eastport ME is as early as 3:45PM EST. Which is fucking absurd.

You must live on the western edge of your timezone.

Holding that opinion, I am reasonably sure you do not live on the eastern edge of your time zone. Being that militant about it, I reasonably believe you live all the way on the western edge.

That being the case, there’s an easier solution. Just redraw the timezone boundaries so your state is just west of the boundary instead of just east, which leaves you on “standard time” in your current timezone, which is “daylight time” to your west.

There is no formal requirement for your state to stay within its current timezone.

If we go to permanent DST, you can petition for your state to switch to the next timezone to the west, which would give you the same time as permanent standard time in your current timezone. Detroit, for example, is on the western edge of ET. Sunrise in winter for them would be as late as 9AM, which is ridiculous. But, if Michigan shifts to CT instead of ET, sunrise goes to 8AM, and everyone is happy.

Move yourself from EDT to CDT, which is the same as EST. Or move from CDT to MDT/CST. Or MDT to PDT/MST. Or PDT to AKDT/PST.

If you don’t want to drive home with your the sun in your eyes, take a job to the east of your home.

Where do you live within your timezone?

I think your sentiment comes from people living on the western side of their time zone, where sunrise and sunset is an hour later than on the eastern end. On the western edge of the timezone (Detroit, for example, on the west end of the Eastern timezone), sunrise in winter could be as late as 9AM.

On the eastern end of a timezone, sunset can be as early as 3:45PM. As early as you want your sunlight, I think we can agree that a sunset before 4PM is ridiculously absurd.

If you are, indeed, on the western edge of the timezone as I think, we could adopt DST, and move you to the next zone to the west, which would put you on the same time as standard time in your current zone. You win, we win, everyone wins.

Alternatively, we could adopt Standard Time, and move people on the eastern edge to the next time zone to the east, which would put them on the same time zone as DST in their current time zone. Again, you win, we win, everyone wins.

Are you on the western edge of your timezone, or at least in the western half?

With permanent DST the latest sunrise in Detroit would be 0900.

The entire nation doesn’t need to be following year round the schedule that Detroit school kids need from November to January.

The better solution for this little problem is to go ahead and shift the entire country to permanent DST, and move Detroit from the Eastern time zone to the Central time zone. Latest sunrise in Detroit is now 8AM. Your complaint is resolved, without either of us being forced to switch our clocks twice a year.

so you’re saying there’s a chance…