Theoretically, yeah. There are tool using species right here on this planet that pass a lot of tests about self awareness, but we’re an order of magnitude more intelligent than a bonobo (well, mostly) and shouldn’t be banging them. I purposely used a species that has recreational sex as an example here.
If there were an intergalactic species that saw us as little more than self aware tool users, that would be up to their morals.
The first question is the problem. If the aliens have an analog rule (“Do they possess our intelligence or greater?”) then it only works if humans and them are roughly the same intelligence.
That definitely could be true. My first reaction here is that it will be dependent on the 2 species. Every sentient species pairing combo would be different because it largely depends on how much the less advanced species is capable of comprehending. That gap between the species along with the absolute intelligence of each of them both matter.
I don’t quite know if I think it only works if there is parity because there has to be some room for agency for the “dumber” species if they are sufficiently ontelligent. It might be such that a species is smart enough or advanced enough to understand the risk they are taking despite not understanding the act itself.
But I’m not sure how set I am in that because I can imagine problems depending on the “advanced” species capability. What if they can inject the right combo of chemicals into your brain to make you love them no matter what they do to you…that could go bad quickly. Certainly that wouldn’t be moral, but there are situations imaginable that are far less extreme then that which would be fine.
Either you’re smart enough to understand the concept of consent or you aren’t. Even if there is a sliding scale of intelligence of creatures (I have some issues with the concept of intelligence as a thing that can reasonably be objectively measured, but we can put that aside for now), whether you’re intelligent enough to understand what you will be doing and what will be done to you and make an informed decision about whether you want to do it seems a pretty binary thing, and largely independent of your intelligence in other contexts (e.g. ability to use tools).
You could make the argument that alien sex might be complicated enough for whatever reason that that the aliens would argue that humans couldn’t meaningfully understand everything that was being done to them and thus could not, by definition, give informed consent, but at least from my experience, humans seem pretty on board with things they don’t fully understand. Whether it’s ethical to fuck someone who has admitted that they don’t know anything about what you’re going to do to them, is aware they may be harmed by it, and wants to do it anyway is another question.
Besides, all we’d need is for one human to fuck one alien for science to know whether or not it was safe.
What if it turns out that all sex has unforeseen consequences that human beings are incapable of understanding? A lot of cultures ascribe spiritual and metaphysical values to sex. What if aliens have an empirical proof that sex affects metaphysics in a way too complex for any human mind to conceive of?
Yes, but that’s also the case for animals. Animals don’t understand they’re gonna get pregnant from sex. They still do it. And we avoid doing it with them because they don’t understand it. Maybe aliens will conclude we don’t understand sex either, and only the asshole aliens will be willing to sleep with us.
I think In that scenario that you are describing there is an imbalance in the sexual encounter. I feel that there is a way to approach it in a way that alien explains the consequences, but that would depend highly on what the objective reality of the encounter would entail for the human. (I say human assuming that the human is the one unaware and/or new to the metaphysical experience presented to them by the alien partner.). In a way, I think the human has to agree to accepting unknown consequences.
I don’t think so… Intelligence isn’t required for consent, it’s informed willingness in the absence of coercion or manipulation. The other factor is the likelihood of harm - I think that covers the full ethics of what beings you can ethically fuck
There’s a few ways to look at it
One of my parent’s dogs once had sex with a handyman’s foot to completion… By the time he realized what was happening it was over, and the dog wasn’t very bothered. The guy was also very nice about it, but I bet he stopped wearing sandals to jobs
What if he was into it? It’s not like the dog would care… He clearly knew what he was doing. If we’re just horny dogs humping their feet, it’s not like they’re doing anything wrong by not kicking us off
It also reminds me of a YouTube skit where an 18 year old boy goes to an adoption agency to find a 16 year old girl to adopt, with clear implications. It’s a dark joke, but I think it lines up with this nicely
Let’s say there’s an alien species far more advanced than us. We’re too dumb to even understand the basics of their technology, so to them we’re basically pets - they can keep us around, but we’re at their mercy. Now, there’s an issue - a human could believe, even falsely, that we have to have sex with them or there will be consequences. We could even believe it’s expected of us - and that’s not coercive
Now let’s say that same species came to Earth, guaranteed the health and happiness if every human, and made tinder for humans who want to have sex with an alien. In that case, if you handle it correctly, you can minimize or eliminate coercion from the act
Maybe the aliens don’t even have sex… Maybe they just think humans are cute, and they enjoy making us feel good the way we enjoy petting animals
I don’t think intelligence plays into any of this - consent isn’t about intelligence at all. It’s about willingness in an uncorrupted state
Give em The Harkness Test
Does that mean there could be species which humans want to fuck, but which would not consider humans intelligent enough to give proper consent?
Theoretically, yeah. There are tool using species right here on this planet that pass a lot of tests about self awareness, but we’re an order of magnitude more intelligent than a bonobo (well, mostly) and shouldn’t be banging them. I purposely used a species that has recreational sex as an example here.
If there were an intergalactic species that saw us as little more than self aware tool users, that would be up to their morals.
I think that as long as we pass this test from their perspective then it’s fine
We have to convey the 3 check boxes to one another.
It doesn’t matter who is more advanced as long as both species can answer yes to all 3 questions
☑️ Does it have Tier 5 intelligence or greater?
☑️ Is it of sexual maturity for the species?
❌ Can it communicate with subatomic gamma waves?
The first question is the problem. If the aliens have an analog rule (“Do they possess our intelligence or greater?”) then it only works if humans and them are roughly the same intelligence.
That definitely could be true. My first reaction here is that it will be dependent on the 2 species. Every sentient species pairing combo would be different because it largely depends on how much the less advanced species is capable of comprehending. That gap between the species along with the absolute intelligence of each of them both matter.
I don’t quite know if I think it only works if there is parity because there has to be some room for agency for the “dumber” species if they are sufficiently ontelligent. It might be such that a species is smart enough or advanced enough to understand the risk they are taking despite not understanding the act itself.
But I’m not sure how set I am in that because I can imagine problems depending on the “advanced” species capability. What if they can inject the right combo of chemicals into your brain to make you love them no matter what they do to you…that could go bad quickly. Certainly that wouldn’t be moral, but there are situations imaginable that are far less extreme then that which would be fine.
Either you’re smart enough to understand the concept of consent or you aren’t. Even if there is a sliding scale of intelligence of creatures (I have some issues with the concept of intelligence as a thing that can reasonably be objectively measured, but we can put that aside for now), whether you’re intelligent enough to understand what you will be doing and what will be done to you and make an informed decision about whether you want to do it seems a pretty binary thing, and largely independent of your intelligence in other contexts (e.g. ability to use tools).
You could make the argument that alien sex might be complicated enough for whatever reason that that the aliens would argue that humans couldn’t meaningfully understand everything that was being done to them and thus could not, by definition, give informed consent, but at least from my experience, humans seem pretty on board with things they don’t fully understand. Whether it’s ethical to fuck someone who has admitted that they don’t know anything about what you’re going to do to them, is aware they may be harmed by it, and wants to do it anyway is another question.
Besides, all we’d need is for one human to fuck one alien for science to know whether or not it was safe.
Every 18 y.o. on their first time, sounds like.
What if it turns out that all sex has unforeseen consequences that human beings are incapable of understanding? A lot of cultures ascribe spiritual and metaphysical values to sex. What if aliens have an empirical proof that sex affects metaphysics in a way too complex for any human mind to conceive of?
Considering that metaphysics must be affected in that way in order for any species that practices copulatory sex to not die out…
(You could make an argument for IVF, but…no.)
Yes, but that’s also the case for animals. Animals don’t understand they’re gonna get pregnant from sex. They still do it. And we avoid doing it with them because they don’t understand it. Maybe aliens will conclude we don’t understand sex either, and only the asshole aliens will be willing to sleep with us.
I think In that scenario that you are describing there is an imbalance in the sexual encounter. I feel that there is a way to approach it in a way that alien explains the consequences, but that would depend highly on what the objective reality of the encounter would entail for the human. (I say human assuming that the human is the one unaware and/or new to the metaphysical experience presented to them by the alien partner.). In a way, I think the human has to agree to accepting unknown consequences.
I don’t think so… Intelligence isn’t required for consent, it’s informed willingness in the absence of coercion or manipulation. The other factor is the likelihood of harm - I think that covers the full ethics of what beings you can ethically fuck
There’s a few ways to look at it
One of my parent’s dogs once had sex with a handyman’s foot to completion… By the time he realized what was happening it was over, and the dog wasn’t very bothered. The guy was also very nice about it, but I bet he stopped wearing sandals to jobs
What if he was into it? It’s not like the dog would care… He clearly knew what he was doing. If we’re just horny dogs humping their feet, it’s not like they’re doing anything wrong by not kicking us off
It also reminds me of a YouTube skit where an 18 year old boy goes to an adoption agency to find a 16 year old girl to adopt, with clear implications. It’s a dark joke, but I think it lines up with this nicely
Let’s say there’s an alien species far more advanced than us. We’re too dumb to even understand the basics of their technology, so to them we’re basically pets - they can keep us around, but we’re at their mercy. Now, there’s an issue - a human could believe, even falsely, that we have to have sex with them or there will be consequences. We could even believe it’s expected of us - and that’s not coercive
Now let’s say that same species came to Earth, guaranteed the health and happiness if every human, and made tinder for humans who want to have sex with an alien. In that case, if you handle it correctly, you can minimize or eliminate coercion from the act
Maybe the aliens don’t even have sex… Maybe they just think humans are cute, and they enjoy making us feel good the way we enjoy petting animals
I don’t think intelligence plays into any of this - consent isn’t about intelligence at all. It’s about willingness in an uncorrupted state
There’s also the card game Consentacle
seems like this has some troublesome edge cases. like parrots.
Parrots don’t have human intelligence tho.
Maybe some humans.
Is this a right wing pigeon from outer space?
Technically it’s a centrist, since it’s in between a left and right wing.
i asked one if it had human intelligence and it said yes.
Someone needs to get this to Riker
Might want to add, “Does it consent?” to the end of that.