From my observation, if the western world would just mind its fkin business, the rest of the world would be happy and we wouldn’t be thinking about WWIII.
I do hope one day that everything of everything gets declassified. Rip that bandaid off and prepare the guillotines (for all the oppressors and transgressors of humanity).
I don’t know if the CIA ever mingled with Chinese politics - I doubt it. But Africa, brah, we have a bad history of what the western world in general has done in that continent, whether directly or indirectly or proxies.
Technically, Western democracy. Pay attention to all the nations that are currently turning their backs on the U.S. and joining BRICS. Had the U.S., alone, not meddle with other nations, the U.S. wouldn’t be losing the petrodollar at this moment and wouldn’t be losing all the nations that have invested into the dollar. Now in the next 10 or so years… well, guess we’ll have to see the turnout. I can’t even speculate because it’s over my head.
No one claimed the west is perfect. The claim that other parts of the world are (or would be, if only that pesky west didn’t interfere) is, however, ridiculous.
Look. I’m a practical person who believes in evidence-based policy. I believe that we shouldn’t let perfect be the enemy of good. Now, is the Chinese system perfect? No, of course not - but it outperforms just about every western system in just about every way relevant to the average person, and that’s why I advocate for it over the systems we currently have in place.
Sure, you keep telling yourself that over the sound of denying the Tiananmen Square massacre, cozying up to Russia, everything about Taiwan, the Uyghurs and the sweatshops.
I’m just going to stay in Europe, if you don’t mind.
Happy without the horrors of the western world’s education, sanitation, medicine, science, technology, liberalism, or democracy?
Sounds great! I’m sure you’ll really enjoy sustenance farming. If you’re lucky, you can get married at a young age and experience the joys of as many children as you (or your wife’s) body will bear.
The western world’s quality of life requires endemic poverty in most of the rest of the world to be sustained. That poverty is created by western financial institutions and western militaries, which have built and enforce a global system of unequal exchange, where the trade systems between western and nonwestern countries are favorable to the western ones, to the tune of siphoning trillions of dollars from the nonwestern world every year.
It’s really very simple. If capitalism worked, why hasn’t it worked for the hundreds of countries that have done it for the past century in central and south america, africa, and asia?
Capitalism isn’t a magic antidote. Nor are all iterations of it successful. It really depends on the government keeping corruption under control, keeping monopolies from forming, keeping regulatory capture from occurring. Also, capitalism is just an economic system. There’s also political systems, legal systems, financial systems, military systems, all sorts of other government functions.
Capitalism is actually working pretty well in Asia. China is doing tremendously better since they introduced some capitalism into their socialist system, creating a mixed economy. Their growth has lifted a lot of people out of poverty. Other Asian economies have performed very well. Look at Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, and (at least prior to Chinese takeover) Hong Kong.
Latin America and Africa have a lot of complex problems, many stemming from years - or even centuries - of colonialism, military conflicts, social issues, endemic corruption, bad economic policy like “printing money” and trying to spend their way out of inflation, thereby creating hyperinflation, etc. Expecting an economic system to magically fix all the incredibly complex and even seemingly intractable issues in a society is quite unrealistic.
It really depends on the government keeping corruption under control, keeping monopolies from forming, keeping regulatory capture from occurring.
So, Capitalism’s success depends on the government preventing Capitalism from doing the things that it always inevitably does? Great system you’ve got there.
Great? Maybe not. The best we’ve found for economic development and continued economic growth? So far, yes.
All systems have strengths and weaknesses. All economic systems require intervention to prevent bad actors from exploiting them. If you think communism doesn’t, it’s because you aren’t actually familiar with it.
Again, I highly recommend that you read about twentieth century USSR and China, especially the early days of Mao, Lenin, and Stalin. Because you don’t seem very familiar with communism for someone named after Karl Marx.
I guarantee you I’ve read more books on the incredible successes of the USSR and China than you have. What you think you know is propaganda your teachers taught you and that pop culture reinforces on you, on the same level as “and then the Indians taught the Pilgrims how to grow corn and they all lived happily ever after”.
Actually most of my knowledge comes from primary sources. People who lived it and wrote or talked about what it was really like. Since you got your hands on something describing “incredible successes” in the USSR and China than obviously you were the one reading propaganda. Or perhaps you consider starving millions of people in the Holodomer and Great Famine to be an incredible success? Killing the kulaks? Incredible success. Book burnings? Incredible success. Cultural revolution? Believe it or not, also incredible success.
It’s normally against my policy to keep replying to people after a day has passed, but…
Holodomor
was called “the soviet famine” until literal Nazi propagandists relabeled it with the help of American yellow journalists and photos from before the USSR was founded
Great Famine
despite the famine happening, life spans under Mao doubled compared to the Republic of China.
These two events were also, notably, the last famines to occur in those countries that were not intentionally caused by another country invading. Before the Soviets, the Caucasus experienced a famine about once per decade - and before Mao, China experienced a famine somewhere in its borders every single year. Famines occurred at the beginning of the Communist period, and it was Communist policies that brought the famines to an end. Meanwhile there are quite a few capitalist regimes on this Earth that still struggle with food security far more than the communist ones do.
The kulaks and landlords deserved it, and most of them weren’t killed anyway just the saboteurs and capitalist/nazi collaborators.
Book Burnings
The Nazis burned science textbooks they didn’t like, the Soviets banned antisemitic authors who spread conspiracy theories and disinformation. It’s not the same thing.
Cultural Revolution
Actually the modern CPC’s position is that the Cultural Revolution was a mistake, but what makes China’s system so remarkable is precisely the fact that it’s capable of owning its own mistakes and putting a stop to them. Meanwhile in America we’ve probably killed and jailed more people than the Red Guards did and there’s no end in sight to the policies behind it - but instead of “Cultural Revolution” or “Great Purge” we call it “The War on Drugs”.
From my observation, if the western world would just mind its fkin business, the rest of the world would be happy and we wouldn’t be thinking about WWIII.
I do hope one day that everything of everything gets declassified. Rip that bandaid off and prepare the guillotines (for all the oppressors and transgressors of humanity).
This is a very naive observation which assumes that any atrocities commited in China or Africa are strictly the fault of the west…
I don’t know if the CIA ever mingled with Chinese politics - I doubt it. But Africa, brah, we have a bad history of what the western world in general has done in that continent, whether directly or indirectly or proxies.
That’s a straw man, as I never argued that there were no western influences.
It’s at best naive to think that only western influences led to atrocities, though.
Oh I’m not saying, “only”. For example, the only, “democracy” in the Middle East - Israel, apparently is funding the killing of Armenian Christians.
Sea wat I did thar?
What you did there is derail the conversation from the fact that you claimed that “The West” is the only source of misery.
You’re a troll and I won’t engage further.
Technically, Western democracy. Pay attention to all the nations that are currently turning their backs on the U.S. and joining BRICS. Had the U.S., alone, not meddle with other nations, the U.S. wouldn’t be losing the petrodollar at this moment and wouldn’t be losing all the nations that have invested into the dollar. Now in the next 10 or so years… well, guess we’ll have to see the turnout. I can’t even speculate because it’s over my head.
They haven’t, but it’s not for lack of trying.
Ooooof…
No one claimed the west is perfect. The claim that other parts of the world are (or would be, if only that pesky west didn’t interfere) is, however, ridiculous.
Look. I’m a practical person who believes in evidence-based policy. I believe that we shouldn’t let perfect be the enemy of good. Now, is the Chinese system perfect? No, of course not - but it outperforms just about every western system in just about every way relevant to the average person, and that’s why I advocate for it over the systems we currently have in place.
Sure, you keep telling yourself that over the sound of denying the Tiananmen Square massacre, cozying up to Russia, everything about Taiwan, the Uyghurs and the sweatshops.
I’m just going to stay in Europe, if you don’t mind.
Considering the people every European country just elected, I’m sure you’ll be quite happy there.
Happy without the horrors of the western world’s education, sanitation, medicine, science, technology, liberalism, or democracy?
Sounds great! I’m sure you’ll really enjoy sustenance farming. If you’re lucky, you can get married at a young age and experience the joys of as many children as you (or your wife’s) body will bear.
The western world’s quality of life requires endemic poverty in most of the rest of the world to be sustained. That poverty is created by western financial institutions and western militaries, which have built and enforce a global system of unequal exchange, where the trade systems between western and nonwestern countries are favorable to the western ones, to the tune of siphoning trillions of dollars from the nonwestern world every year.
It’s really very simple. If capitalism worked, why hasn’t it worked for the hundreds of countries that have done it for the past century in central and south america, africa, and asia?
Capitalism isn’t a magic antidote. Nor are all iterations of it successful. It really depends on the government keeping corruption under control, keeping monopolies from forming, keeping regulatory capture from occurring. Also, capitalism is just an economic system. There’s also political systems, legal systems, financial systems, military systems, all sorts of other government functions.
Capitalism is actually working pretty well in Asia. China is doing tremendously better since they introduced some capitalism into their socialist system, creating a mixed economy. Their growth has lifted a lot of people out of poverty. Other Asian economies have performed very well. Look at Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, and (at least prior to Chinese takeover) Hong Kong.
Latin America and Africa have a lot of complex problems, many stemming from years - or even centuries - of colonialism, military conflicts, social issues, endemic corruption, bad economic policy like “printing money” and trying to spend their way out of inflation, thereby creating hyperinflation, etc. Expecting an economic system to magically fix all the incredibly complex and even seemingly intractable issues in a society is quite unrealistic.
So, Capitalism’s success depends on the government preventing Capitalism from doing the things that it always inevitably does? Great system you’ve got there.
Great? Maybe not. The best we’ve found for economic development and continued economic growth? So far, yes.
All systems have strengths and weaknesses. All economic systems require intervention to prevent bad actors from exploiting them. If you think communism doesn’t, it’s because you aren’t actually familiar with it.
Again, I highly recommend that you read about twentieth century USSR and China, especially the early days of Mao, Lenin, and Stalin. Because you don’t seem very familiar with communism for someone named after Karl Marx.
I guarantee you I’ve read more books on the incredible successes of the USSR and China than you have. What you think you know is propaganda your teachers taught you and that pop culture reinforces on you, on the same level as “and then the Indians taught the Pilgrims how to grow corn and they all lived happily ever after”.
Actually most of my knowledge comes from primary sources. People who lived it and wrote or talked about what it was really like. Since you got your hands on something describing “incredible successes” in the USSR and China than obviously you were the one reading propaganda. Or perhaps you consider starving millions of people in the Holodomer and Great Famine to be an incredible success? Killing the kulaks? Incredible success. Book burnings? Incredible success. Cultural revolution? Believe it or not, also incredible success.
It’s normally against my policy to keep replying to people after a day has passed, but…
was called “the soviet famine” until literal Nazi propagandists relabeled it with the help of American yellow journalists and photos from before the USSR was founded
despite the famine happening, life spans under Mao doubled compared to the Republic of China.
These two events were also, notably, the last famines to occur in those countries that were not intentionally caused by another country invading. Before the Soviets, the Caucasus experienced a famine about once per decade - and before Mao, China experienced a famine somewhere in its borders every single year. Famines occurred at the beginning of the Communist period, and it was Communist policies that brought the famines to an end. Meanwhile there are quite a few capitalist regimes on this Earth that still struggle with food security far more than the communist ones do.
One of them is the United States. In 2010, 19% of Americans had trouble affording food compared to only 6% of Chinese people. Today China’s food insecure population is virtually zero thanks to the program of eradicating extreme poverty, which no western or capitalist country would ever implement for their own.
and to address the rest of your gish gallop
The kulaks and landlords deserved it, and most of them weren’t killed anyway just the saboteurs and capitalist/nazi collaborators.
The Nazis burned science textbooks they didn’t like, the Soviets banned antisemitic authors who spread conspiracy theories and disinformation. It’s not the same thing.
Actually the modern CPC’s position is that the Cultural Revolution was a mistake, but what makes China’s system so remarkable is precisely the fact that it’s capable of owning its own mistakes and putting a stop to them. Meanwhile in America we’ve probably killed and jailed more people than the Red Guards did and there’s no end in sight to the policies behind it - but instead of “Cultural Revolution” or “Great Purge” we call it “The War on Drugs”.